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but, we don't agree on a lot of politics. >> all right. so, you guys are, when you talk, man-to-man, you don't have a big fischer. but i'm sure he voted for barack obama. you are not going to vote for barack obama. now, the global warming is his big deal, the environmental stuff. dodo you believe in global warming? do you think it's been caused by carbons and we are the responsibility for this? >> well, when he drives the prius to the challenger, you know, you have got to question a little bit. but, you know, what i believe in is clean air and clean water and a future for our kids. i don't believe that my ford f-250 is causing global warming. i might get a lot of flack for that but, you know, we can't tax ourselves by going in with things like the deoat that protocol and that kind of stuff. so no, i'm not a believer but i want to make sure that we're still doing the right thing going forward. i just don't like scaring kids and telling them we are cook pg ourself. >> you want clean water and clean air but you are not buying into the fact th
but, we don't agree on a lot of politics. >> all right. so, you guys are, when you talk, man-to-man, you don't have a big fischer. but i'm sure he voted for barack obama. you are not going to vote for barack obama. now, the global warming is his big deal, the environmental stuff. dodo you believe in global warming? do you think it's been caused by carbons and we are the responsibility for this? >> well, when he drives the prius to the challenger, you know, you have got to question a...
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. >> the former head of the black caucus if obama was right the black caucus would march on washington. they are worse off today. lou: i was going to the politics of it which will be insignificant at most at the margin rather than the reality of it for black americans and what is being done to deal with, if you will, providing equal opportunity. >> why isn't the urban czar doing anything? >> this is where the lack of jobs hurts those who are the poorest. they don't get the work experience t who fall further ad further behind. it is really hurting the black community. neil: it'd be nice to see the station restored to prosperity all over. what a grumpy, grumpy guy. anyway, thank you for being here. appreciate it. thank you, robert. that is it for us tonight, join us tomorrow. good night from new york. >> as we are shelling out a lot of money, should welfare recipients have no shot at lotto money? welcome, everybody, i am liz macdonald in for neil cavuto. now looking to stop merchants from selling lottery tickets for those who are on bankrupt. money should go to only those who are necessa
. >> the former head of the black caucus if obama was right the black caucus would march on washington. they are worse off today. lou: i was going to the politics of it which will be insignificant at most at the margin rather than the reality of it for black americans and what is being done to deal with, if you will, providing equal opportunity. >> why isn't the urban czar doing anything? >> this is where the lack of jobs hurts those who are the poorest. they don't get the...
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you know, one, i think we all are aware of the basic sort of political contours of this. historic losses cost the republican party the election. that could harm them for decades to come from something republican party leaders i think all realize has to happen here. can they get the rank and file to go along? i was checking twitter in the break that caught my attention. one of the leaders in the house, one out leaders of the conservative movement who helped kill immigration reform in 2006, 2007 is steve king from iowa. he's had some pretty harsh things to say about immigrants in the years and now an open senate seat in iowa thanks to the retirement of tom harkin and the point of questions asking luke in the last segment was, there is a difference of republicans running statewide where there is a real stigma to be a nativist and republicans running in the safely republican districts where the biggest threat is a challenge of the right. steve king is suddenly making noises we have never heard him make in his life about how, you know, maybe he might be open to this idea of co
you know, one, i think we all are aware of the basic sort of political contours of this. historic losses cost the republican party the election. that could harm them for decades to come from something republican party leaders i think all realize has to happen here. can they get the rank and file to go along? i was checking twitter in the break that caught my attention. one of the leaders in the house, one out leaders of the conservative movement who helped kill immigration reform in 2006, 2007...
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their entire indictment of barack obama is, he's mean! that's pathetic. >> right. >> are you serious? >> yes, she is serious, ron. we just saw one of our fellow conservatives talking about the president's plan to outlaw fox news. actually all the president pointed out and i'm quoting was that if a republican member of congress is not punished by fox news or by rush limbaugh for working with a democrat on a bill of common interest, then you'll see more of them doing it. which i don't know, ron, sounds pretty obvious to me, but are you also losing sleep at night because you're afraid the president wants to take away your fox news and your guns? >> you know, i'm very happy to come on msnbc and say thank god for fox news. the fact of the matter is without fox news we'd still think that benghazi, that that attack, that terrorist attack happened because of a video. without katherine and special report and the hard news people. by the way, they have more hard news people than msnbc, cnn, and everybody else -- >> sorry, ron, ron, ron, i accept yo
their entire indictment of barack obama is, he's mean! that's pathetic. >> right. >> are you serious? >> yes, she is serious, ron. we just saw one of our fellow conservatives talking about the president's plan to outlaw fox news. actually all the president pointed out and i'm quoting was that if a republican member of congress is not punished by fox news or by rush limbaugh for working with a democrat on a bill of common interest, then you'll see more of them doing it. which i...
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>> fox news digital politics editor and host of power play on fox news live. there you have it. the white house is a step back and let the senate roll with this could get what president obama said he wanted which is a deal on immigration reform but instead the message we got out of the white house yesterday and you heard it there is i think it's important. the white house believes it is important before we let this moment pass to acknowledge that this is happening because of the president and his significant leadership on this. they just wanted to take a moment to pause and tell us how important it was that president obama gets the credit. that's what jay carney said. how does that help what we are seeing unfold right now which is a deal with republicans on capitol hill. how does this help or not? >> it does not help. it far from helps. the speech today we expect would not help either. that is why we saw that report from the congressional hispanic caucus saying don't push the republicans too hard on this. if they are coming to the table let them come in and let them be there, be
>> fox news digital politics editor and host of power play on fox news live. there you have it. the white house is a step back and let the senate roll with this could get what president obama said he wanted which is a deal on immigration reform but instead the message we got out of the white house yesterday and you heard it there is i think it's important. the white house believes it is important before we let this moment pass to acknowledge that this is happening because of the president...
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it is all happening now patti ann: get ready for political fireworks. president obama right now on his way to las vegas where he is expected to unveil his plan for immigration reform. this one-day after a bipartisan group of senators laid out their own proposal. hello, everyone, i'm patti ann browne in for jenna lee. jon: i'm jon scott. the president's plan expected to mirror much of the senator's blueprint but some key differences could spark a fierce debate. molly henneberg is live at the white house with more. those differences, molly, what are they? >> reporter: hi, jon. the white house says the president believes the senate framework is very good, as a quote, cause for hope but there isn't an actual piece of legislation yet so the white house is very careful not to comment too much what the president would would not like about it. there is a may be a key difference the president may want a faster path to citizenship than the by partisan senate group may want. the white house is not clear how much border security the president would want implemented
it is all happening now patti ann: get ready for political fireworks. president obama right now on his way to las vegas where he is expected to unveil his plan for immigration reform. this one-day after a bipartisan group of senators laid out their own proposal. hello, everyone, i'm patti ann browne in for jenna lee. jon: i'm jon scott. the president's plan expected to mirror much of the senator's blueprint but some key differences could spark a fierce debate. molly henneberg is live at the...
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the politics of this have been really talked about a lot. in fact, we talked about it earlier this hour. let me start with the economics of immigration reform. a number of ceos have told us that they would like to see this in the perspective of, hey, let's get some highly skilled immigrants in here that will help the economy. that will help us to get us turned around. your views are what? >> there is no question if we follow what is good economic policy for america we will have immigration reform. it will allow more skilled and unskilled foreign workers to come into the united states. we need the labor. if you look at the labor participation rate in the united states, it is almost at a record low for the percentage of adults who are actually working or trying to get a job. only about 58%. if you are going to grow your economy, you have to have enough workers and we do not right now. connell: we are behind on this, aren't we? i was doing a story a couple years ago on the european financial crisis when they were really at the worst of it and t
the politics of this have been really talked about a lot. in fact, we talked about it earlier this hour. let me start with the economics of immigration reform. a number of ceos have told us that they would like to see this in the perspective of, hey, let's get some highly skilled immigrants in here that will help the economy. that will help us to get us turned around. your views are what? >> there is no question if we follow what is good economic policy for america we will have...
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force, which helped put president obama in the white house twice. let's turn to leo gerard, president of the united steelworkers international organization. mr. gerard good to have you with us tonight. >> good to be here. >> is this an issue that is going to help the labor force in this country? if you have 11 million workers come out of the shadows -- and let's face it, well over in the 90% have got to be, they're not all felons is the point i'm making. how is this going to help the labor movement in this country? >> look, these are primarily good people that came to america in search of the american dream, in search of a better standard of living. if you go back to the days of when we were told about nafta, we were told nafta would solve the immigration issue from mexico, but in reality what it did is depress mexican wages, depress mexican opportunity. and those people came here in search of a better life. so what we've been fighting, the labor movement has been fighting for proper immigration reform now for going on almost 20 years. and i think t
force, which helped put president obama in the white house twice. let's turn to leo gerard, president of the united steelworkers international organization. mr. gerard good to have you with us tonight. >> good to be here. >> is this an issue that is going to help the labor force in this country? if you have 11 million workers come out of the shadows -- and let's face it, well over in the 90% have got to be, they're not all felons is the point i'm making. how is this going to help...
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so this -- what everybody is talking about, obama and hillary clinton on "60 minutes." >> you guys in the press are encourageable. i was literally elected four days ago. >> yeah and as you know i'm still secretary of state, so i'm out of politics and i'm forbidden from even hearing these questions. you know, look obviously the president and i care deeply about what is going to happen for our country in the future and i don't think either he or i can make predictions about what is going to happen tomorrow or the next year. >> stephanie: but charlie pierce can. >> we can't make prediction but boy that bobby jindal is a jerk isn't he? they should take that act on the road. the sly little glances at each other and stuff. [ laughter ] >> stephanie: what do you think? >> i -- it is 2013 i refuse to say anything about 2016 until 2015. however, i think the one person that everybody is sleeping on on the republican side is scott walker. if he managed to stay unconvicted in this milwaukee john doe thing, i think he is the one person nobody is paying at attention to. he is a republican governor
so this -- what everybody is talking about, obama and hillary clinton on "60 minutes." >> you guys in the press are encourageable. i was literally elected four days ago. >> yeah and as you know i'm still secretary of state, so i'm out of politics and i'm forbidden from even hearing these questions. you know, look obviously the president and i care deeply about what is going to happen for our country in the future and i don't think either he or i can make predictions about...
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president obama wants gunun safety legislation. house republicans don't like president obama, but house republicans do like police officers. so with that in mind today, president obama invited 13 police chiefs and sheriffs to the white house to discuss gun violence. >> if law enforcement officials who are dealing with this stuff every single day can come to some basic consensus, congress will be paying at attention to them and we'll be able to make progress. >> jennifer: progress that will be novel, but if the senate can move ahead with immigration reform, i say anything is possible. joining me now is democratic strategist donnie fowler. welcome back. >> good to be here. >> jennifer: good policy to have the chiefs and sheriffs come and make the pitch on gun safety. >> there is no more credibility. >> jennifer: i totally agree. >> they are certainly the ones that the american people want to hear from. >> jennifer: the congress can't seem to meet a deadline on fiscal stuff. they have this immigration thing that is teed up. do you thi
president obama wants gunun safety legislation. house republicans don't like president obama, but house republicans do like police officers. so with that in mind today, president obama invited 13 police chiefs and sheriffs to the white house to discuss gun violence. >> if law enforcement officials who are dealing with this stuff every single day can come to some basic consensus, congress will be paying at attention to them and we'll be able to make progress. >> jennifer: progress...
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. >> if they want to continue being part of the political process and want to win the white house back they have to make changes in terms of their agenda. >> and president obama will be in las vegas tomorrow and despite reaction to the bipartisan deal in the senate, immigration reform is expected to face a tougher battle in the house in san jose, david louie abc 7 news. >> we have breaking news in orange county. a doctor has been shot and killed in newport beach this, happened inside of a medical facility. it appears the doctor was targeted. police say they have the gunman under arrest. police in santa maria have detained two band members and owners of the nightclub with a fire broke out over the weekend, killing 231 people yesterday. investigators sate fire was started by pyrotech necks -- nicks on stage at the kiss nightclub. most victims were students from a nearby university. funerals began today. >> a report is raising questions into the 1996 jonbenet ramsey murder case. a grand jury believes there was enough evidence to indict the pairnlts for child abuse resulting in death. dan
. >> if they want to continue being part of the political process and want to win the white house back they have to make changes in terms of their agenda. >> and president obama will be in las vegas tomorrow and despite reaction to the bipartisan deal in the senate, immigration reform is expected to face a tougher battle in the house in san jose, david louie abc 7 news. >> we have breaking news in orange county. a doctor has been shot and killed in newport beach this, happened...
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and cbs political director john dickerson recall last week urging president obama to pulverize the republican party. up next, the department of homeland security looking to acquire thousands of the very same weapons the president is trying to take away from citizens. the "a-team" on double standards and more. the capital one cash rewards card gives you 1% cash back on all purchases, plus a 50% annual bonus. and everyone likes 50% more... [ midwestern/chicago accent ] cheddar! yeah! 50 percent more [yodeling] yodel-ay-ee-oo. 50% more flash. [ southern accent ] 50 percent more taters. that's where tots come from. [ male announcer ] the capital one cash rewards card gives you 1% cash back on every purchase plus a 50% annual bonus on the cash you earn. it's the card for people who like more cash. 50% more spy stuff. what's in your wallet? this car is too small. sphere one ♪ lou: joining me now, the "a-team", former ku rational candid it, fox news contributor, pulitzer prize-winning columnist , fox news contributor, democratic strategist. faugh let's start year. the talks earlier, a member of th
and cbs political director john dickerson recall last week urging president obama to pulverize the republican party. up next, the department of homeland security looking to acquire thousands of the very same weapons the president is trying to take away from citizens. the "a-team" on double standards and more. the capital one cash rewards card gives you 1% cash back on all purchases, plus a 50% annual bonus. and everyone likes 50% more... [ midwestern/chicago accent ] cheddar! yeah! 50...
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then you look at john dickerson, political director last week giving advice that the president should anilate the republican party going forward. it's interesting, in your book issues you talk about how during the campaign, the media absolutely ignored the biggest story. >> well, many big stories. >> steve: because they weren't helpful to the president. >> exactly. journalists, my old boss, bob novak, used to say a reporter is someone who would sell his soul for a story. it's when the story would make barak obama look bad or his presidency look like a failure, there is a total lack of journalistic curiousity, unwillingness to sell one's soul for a story. really big stories like benghazi became nonstories. editorial judgments were made to play these things down, to just set them aside, or you had a lot of the coverage of the job market that just didn't rise to the challenge of demonstrating how bad things were for people. we always hear about job when is there is a republican president. with obama, you have that going on super sized and instead of covering the fact that part-time work
then you look at john dickerson, political director last week giving advice that the president should anilate the republican party going forward. it's interesting, in your book issues you talk about how during the campaign, the media absolutely ignored the biggest story. >> well, many big stories. >> steve: because they weren't helpful to the president. >> exactly. journalists, my old boss, bob novak, used to say a reporter is someone who would sell his soul for a story. it's...
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so how will the politics of this new effort shake out on capitol hill? we asked two senators from the gang of eight. first my conversation with democratic senator dick durbin of illinois. i talked to the majority whip just a short time ago. senator durbin, thank you very much for joining us. i think one of the main questions i'm hearing is, what does this proposal mean for people living in this country illegally right now? what would happen to them? >> basically it would give them a chance to go through a criminal background check to make certain that there are no problems in terms of their background, to pay a fine, to pay their taxes, and then they would be here in a probationary status where they could not be deported. they could work. and we watched them as a number of other things evolve and progress under the bill. border security leading to green cards, leading to citizenship. >> woodruff: we hear some advocacy organizations saying, wait a minute. even that level of requirement is going to be a disincentive. they're not going to want to sign up if
so how will the politics of this new effort shake out on capitol hill? we asked two senators from the gang of eight. first my conversation with democratic senator dick durbin of illinois. i talked to the majority whip just a short time ago. senator durbin, thank you very much for joining us. i think one of the main questions i'm hearing is, what does this proposal mean for people living in this country illegally right now? what would happen to them? >> basically it would give them a...
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and cbs political director john dickerson recall last week urging president obama to pulverize the republican party. up next, the department of homeland security looking to acquire thousands of the very same weapons the president is trying to take away from citizens. the "a-team" on double standards and more. officemax knows... ...tax time can be...well...taxing. so right now we'll give u... ...$10 off any turbo tax deluxe level software or higher! find thousands of big deals now... ...at officemax. we replaced people with a machine.r, what? customers didn't like it. so why do banks do it? hello? hello?! if your bank doesn't let you talk to a real person 24/7, you need an ally. hello? ally bank. your money needs an ally. ♪ lou: joining me now, the "a-team", former ku rational candid it, fox news contributor, pulitzer prize-winning columnist , fox news contributor, democratic strategist. faugh let's start year. the talks earlier, a member of the gang of eight, the senators who have put forward a proposal i gather the president. what is the reason for that time in your judgment? >> i think it
and cbs political director john dickerson recall last week urging president obama to pulverize the republican party. up next, the department of homeland security looking to acquire thousands of the very same weapons the president is trying to take away from citizens. the "a-team" on double standards and more. officemax knows... ...tax time can be...well...taxing. so right now we'll give u... ...$10 off any turbo tax deluxe level software or higher! find thousands of big deals now......
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. >> you didn't hear it on 60 minutes but president obama like many a president before him is unhappy with the press. in a separate weekend interview with the liberal political journal the new republic he grumbled about fox news and rush limbaugh. nothing unexpected there. he explained reporters generally in an effort to be impartial treat democrats and republicans as equivalent. they fail to note that one side is trying to do what is right and we haven't seen that kind of attitude on the other side. never mind of course the president at that moment was being interviewed by one of his campaign donors and supporters who is the owner of the new republic. never mind that he basically whistled up 60 minutes on short notice to sit down with him and his secretary of state for an interview could have been described as just how great is the relationship is between you two? i must have missed a friendly interview 60 minutes did with president bush or secretary of state colin powell or condoleezza rice. you say mr. bush would never have offered one. it is true if he did he would have not gotten
. >> you didn't hear it on 60 minutes but president obama like many a president before him is unhappy with the press. in a separate weekend interview with the liberal political journal the new republic he grumbled about fox news and rush limbaugh. nothing unexpected there. he explained reporters generally in an effort to be impartial treat democrats and republicans as equivalent. they fail to note that one side is trying to do what is right and we haven't seen that kind of attitude on the...
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the romney team told him not to, and so president obama moved quickly with his dream proposals. >> so we never got that detailed plan from marco rubio to address the problem of kids who are brought here illegal. a big opportunity for marco rubio to show political skills, he is now the emissary to conservative republicans in the house and conservative news media to make the case that this is not amnesty, that this is an acceptable proposal that they could embrace, and if he manages to do that, that will be a great achievement on his part for a pretty junior senator. >> thanks very much. susan page, chris, thanks both. joining me now for more on the immigration debate, minnesota senator amy, member of the joint economic committee. this is a big deal economically potentially, senator, because as business people are telling you and as i'm hearing from business people, college presidents and others as i'm sure you've heard this is a major economic component where we're training young people from around the world giving them ph.d.s and then kicking them out. >> exactly. that's why senator h
the romney team told him not to, and so president obama moved quickly with his dream proposals. >> so we never got that detailed plan from marco rubio to address the problem of kids who are brought here illegal. a big opportunity for marco rubio to show political skills, he is now the emissary to conservative republicans in the house and conservative news media to make the case that this is not amnesty, that this is an acceptable proposal that they could embrace, and if he manages to do...
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a group of president obama's top political donors helped pay off some of the leftover bills from her 2008 unsuccessful bid for the presidency. this is according to campaign disclosure reports filed last week. as you know, as secretary of state she was forbidden from political fundraising. >> do we know the kinds of changes that senator kerry will want to make when he becomes secretary of state kerry, either in terms of policy or personnel? >> reporter: it's not clear on the personnel front. there are still people waiting to hear what they'll do for a living when they show up at work monday in terms of the career foreign service folks. his inner circle is still unannounced at this point. but what we do know is on the foreign policy front, he really, to borrow a phrase from him, there is no daylight when it comes to secretary clinton's views and secretary-designate kerry's views on libya or virtually any other part of foreign policy. it was interesting, though, that he emphasized in his views economic policy is foreign policy. so he's going to focus on that a lot. >> margaret brennan,
a group of president obama's top political donors helped pay off some of the leftover bills from her 2008 unsuccessful bid for the presidency. this is according to campaign disclosure reports filed last week. as you know, as secretary of state she was forbidden from political fundraising. >> do we know the kinds of changes that senator kerry will want to make when he becomes secretary of state kerry, either in terms of policy or personnel? >> reporter: it's not clear on the...
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so it is a political situation. let's see what happens. i'm very amused at we must secure the border first before really we do anything. i was the director, regional director in mexico city, south america, texas, arizona, with the u.s. drug enforcement. we still haven't secured a border. throughout the years you will never secure the border 100%. so why do we keep saying secure the border first and then we'll do something about it? we should be enforcing the laws in the united states of america when they cross the border. it's very simple. >> you've lost some allies here. senator john mccain, he weighed in on this. obviously there's political realities to pushing for an immigration reform. here what happens he said about what's being put on the table. >> elections, elections. the republican party is losing the support of our hispanic citizens and we realize that there are many issues in which we think we are in agreement with our hispanic citizens. but this is a preeminent issue with those citizens. >> so, sheriff, i mean there is the poli
so it is a political situation. let's see what happens. i'm very amused at we must secure the border first before really we do anything. i was the director, regional director in mexico city, south america, texas, arizona, with the u.s. drug enforcement. we still haven't secured a border. throughout the years you will never secure the border 100%. so why do we keep saying secure the border first and then we'll do something about it? we should be enforcing the laws in the united states of america...
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president obama heads to nevada to layout his terms for immigration reform. will the white house end newspaper a battle with the senate one day after senators from both parties unveil their plan. the political and economic stakes are huge. lifesaving information for breast cancer patients. ha new study on what can increase survival rates. the prosecution paints jodi arias as a cold-blooded killer. can she sway the jury and save her own life? it's all on "happening now." bill: just watching this vote in the senate right now, john kerry's nomination nor secretary of state. will he make it? we're keeping a close eye on this. martha: more than three months after super storm sandy and the cleanup is far from over, the massive effort that is underway. look at this to clear all of that massive debris. we'll be right back. hey! did you know that honey nut cheerios has oats that can help lower cholesterol? and it tastes good? sure does! wow. it's the honey, it makes it taste so... well, would you look at the time... what's the rush? be happy. be healthy. bill: here is
president obama heads to nevada to layout his terms for immigration reform. will the white house end newspaper a battle with the senate one day after senators from both parties unveil their plan. the political and economic stakes are huge. lifesaving information for breast cancer patients. ha new study on what can increase survival rates. the prosecution paints jodi arias as a cold-blooded killer. can she sway the jury and save her own life? it's all on "happening now." bill: just...
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it was seen more as a political message ahead of an election rather than a genuine push for change here. the thing is, now the administration thinks they may be able to accomplish something. >> in 2011, president obama went to the border town in el paso to push for comprehensive immigration reform. >> out of many, one. we define ourselves as a nation of imgrants. >> reporter: that went no where now in a second term, the president is trying it again. heading to las vegas today to push for border security, a verification system for employers to ensure they hire documented workers, with punishment if they don't. and the most significant and controversial part of the plan, a pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants, including registering with the government, undergoing background checks, paying taxes and a penalty, and learning english. a solution has alluded past presidents, including george w. bush. >> congress' failure to act is a disappointment. >> reporter: president obama said that some undocumented young immigrants would stop. but he was taken to task at a town hall for not
it was seen more as a political message ahead of an election rather than a genuine push for change here. the thing is, now the administration thinks they may be able to accomplish something. >> in 2011, president obama went to the border town in el paso to push for comprehensive immigration reform. >> out of many, one. we define ourselves as a nation of imgrants. >> reporter: that went no where now in a second term, the president is trying it again. heading to las vegas today...
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we took part of these briefings of the obama administration team. we thought we had a program that was viable, limited, politically and legally realistic. one by way the entire intelligence committee have now been reached into. to digress for a second, the major mistake we made, and i include myself in this, was in the early years of the program. the existence of the program, ed to theas not limit t gameng of 8. i think that was a mistake. by 2006 both had been briefed. we thought it was possible. we thought the obama administration could have continued the program in this limited form, at least maintained it as an option. it did not come to pass they told the -- to pass. i do not think any less realistically thought they would stick with that. we have not reviewed the executive order. the tunnel was out of our plane. this is a factual slot in the film. they're saying this is not factually correct. we got a hold of the executive order again. all government will be confined to the techniques in army filled many predict army field manual. -- army fiel
we took part of these briefings of the obama administration team. we thought we had a program that was viable, limited, politically and legally realistic. one by way the entire intelligence committee have now been reached into. to digress for a second, the major mistake we made, and i include myself in this, was in the early years of the program. the existence of the program, ed to theas not limit t gameng of 8. i think that was a mistake. by 2006 both had been briefed. we thought it was...